Talk:3rd Rock from the Sun

Commedia
Wayland

This is a very ingenious theory, but I wonder if it has any basis in what the writers intended? Otherwise it seems a bit speculative. Anything to back it up?

DJ Clayworth 14:55, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes. It is very clear indeed, the constant references are unmistakable. I have no doubt whatsoever of the writers' intention. There isn't just a vague similarity but reference after reference after reference in each and every episode.

I understand the need to question statements made in Wikipedia articles but the theatrical basis of 3rd Rock is most definitely the Commedia.

I'm sure anyone throughly familiar with the Commedia, if asked to watch a set of 3rd Rock DVDs would have no doubts whatsoever. I certainly wouldn't call it a "theory" because that would suggest the possibility of it not being true - which is ridiculous.

Trust me, if you know the Commedia: watch 3rd Rock. On the other hand, if you know 3rd Rock: watch some Commedia dell'arte performances. Either way I'm sure you'll agree.

--wayland 15:38, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Actually I am familiar with both, and while I can't deny a certain similarity I'm not convinced that it's more than coincidental. Several things lead me to this. Firstly I've found no mention of it anywhere on the web. If the writers had intentionally used Commedia then I would expect a reference to it somewhere, at least at a fan convention or something. Secondly the correspondance is not exact. Mary is not 'the only one who is not an alien'; Nina, Dubchek and Don should all correspond to non-mask characters if this is the real basis.

Finally even if you are right, in the sense that there are big similarities (and I believe you probably are) then I think this may still count as 'original research'. Unless, as I say, you can find somewhere where the creators talk about this as one of their sources. DJ Clayworth 19:08, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The opposite is impossible to believe: That a team of professional comedy writers would accidently create a story with character parts matching those of the Commedia without being aware of it, that these same professional comedy writers would also include situations in every episode corresponding to traditional Commedia situations, that the writers would also include use of mime, slapstick, verbal ribaldry and Italian balcony serenade, plus the inclusion of the seven deadly sins and an episode with lovers Sally and Don's first kiss which has Sally dressed in the costume of the 18th Century... all by accidental coincidence... the writers unaware of all these similarities? It would be way too far-fetched to believe and also would be insulting to the professionalism of the writers. It's like saying that professional comedy writers have no awareness of comedy history. I can't believe that.

About the corespondence not being exact: The fact is that it never was exact in Commedia tradition. The stock characters were always in slightly different versions of their relationship to each other anyway. There are enduring qualities which re-emerge throughout different incarnations of the tradition - aand so it is in 3rd Rock. You're right about the non-mask status of Mary Albright though, I've made too much of that detail.

It certainly isn't 'original research' because I haven't done any research. I've only observed an obvious theatrical basis which cannot possibly be coincidental unless you're prepared to believe television comedy writers completely ignorant of their own area of expertise. I'd find that absurd.

I don't know if there's any discussion of the theatrical roots of 3rd Rock on the web. I certainly don't think the absence of something from web discussion is a yardstick to measure facts by, though.

--wayland 20:08, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I second DJ CLayworth's concerns; this is definitely a case of original research within Wikipedia's definition. "Original research" carries no requirement that you've expended any particular work on researching it, only that you've proposed a new theory. Read the original research guidelines. Can you cite sources that this is a well-documented view of Third Rock from the Sun? If not, however obvious it may appear to you, the guidelines are very clear that it doesn't belong here. RG 24 Mar 2005.


 * I think I provided too many observations to be accepted at once. On reflection I think it's better to simply make the observation that techniques and styles have been adopted into 3rd Rock from traditional clowning. I'll leave it to the TV viewer to draw their own conclusions as to how each character fits into the traditional scenarios.

--wayland 15:40, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

John Lithgow confirms that Commedia dell'arte is one of the influences on 3rd Rock. See the "John Lithgow Interview" in the extras on the 4th Disk of the First Season DVD set. --Tregonsee 02:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * If that's true, then fine, but it's still ridiculously overstated in this article. The vast majority of the show is extremely typically American. Also, the article (season synopses in particular) are outrageously NPOV with too many 'best loved' comments and glowy adjectives and whatnot. Why are these discussion contributions so old, yet the article still so bad? 74.227.120.238 08:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Finale spoiler
After Mary sees Dick change Liam into a monkey. Who is Liam? Sally helps Don realize what it means to be a police officer. How? And what does it mean? -Joshuapaquin 04:51, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Liam is an alien who was on the show before. This time he returned to Earth with plans to turn it into planet monkey world. After Don witnessed a Robbery and hid in a freezer, he decided to quit the force and make muffins. Sally then convinced him to remain a police officer in a rocky style montage. It would make a lot more sence to you if you watched the last 4 episodes.--Cooleymd 04:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Because this section does not have anything to do with editing this page, I am going to delete this comment section after a few days, unless someone objects.--Cooleymd 04:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Sally's name???
it says in the cast section "Sally's name may come from the title of the movie 'When Harry Met Sally...' ". i dont understand this, sally is just a name, why would it have come from this? Raemie January 18, 2006


 * Because Harry is the name of another character on the show. Qutezuce 05:15, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not used to present speculatory evidence. Is there any possibility of finding supporting evidence? If not, I will remove or edit it so that said quote, as well as the reference to the possibility of the use of the term "Every Tom, Dick, and Harry" around February the 20th. Crisco 1492 15:27, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The refference to "every tom dick and harry" should not be removed sine it has been played several times in the show. One event is even mentioned with Don noticing
 * Thank you, I will simply remove the Sally inspiration theory. Crisco 1492 16:05, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Sally's name? Another possibility.
Is there any evidence to support the theory that Sally's name came from the grade school readers where the main characters were Dick, Jane, and their younger sister Sally? Famous for the "Oh look. See Dick run. See Jane run." storyline. I always assumed this was the source of the name for Sally, since it fit the so well with the "Tom, Dick, and Harry" theme, but I have no evidence to support this theory. Wayne Langerman 03:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

In one episode with a sort of identity crisis theme, it is noted that the 3 male characters are "just Tom, Dick, and Harry", which was supposedly the 3 most common male names at the time. It could also lead one to believe that Sally was the most common female name of the time. {Robin Ehrenberg}

"Common sources of humour"
As I clicked on "new section" I noticed that this has been mentioned &mdash; it's surprising, then, that it's still in the article. The section concerned seems clearly to be original research, in the Wikipedia sense. --Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 22:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Title comes from Jimi hendrix song??
Is the title of the series a parody of the Jimi Hendrix song, "Third stone from the sun?"--Macca7174 19:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I had always thought it came from the 1994 Joe Diffie song "Third Rock From The Sun". Mushrom 19:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Lack of support
"finding that money and identification has been provided for them by their superiors (who are frequently invoked as having a shadowy influence on Earth authorities, shielding the Solomon from the worst effects of their irresponsible actions" I have watched every episode of the show, and I have never seen any references to that. In fact it was Tommy that was the one that set up their identities, and they picked the name Solomon because they saw that name on the side of a truck, that is how they came up with their identity.  I have no idea what this article is talking about in regards to their superiors having a shadowy influence on Earth authorities.  I am going to delete that line unless someone can site to at least one episode that even remotely supports that line. --Cooleymd 00:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No, you're right. That's absolute nonsense, someone's original research. Mark83 08:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Move Series Finale Section
Would anyone object to me moving the Series finale section to just below season 6? The section seams to be out of order.--Cooleymd 04:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Episode notability
Many or all of the existing individual episode pages for appear to fail the notability guidelines for television episodes, and have been tagged accordingly. These articles can be improved through the inclusion of real-world information from reliable sources to assert notability. Overly long plot summaries should be edited, to a maximum length of approximately ten words per minute of screen time. Trivia should be integrated into the body of the article, or removed if it is not directly relevant. Quotes and images should only be used as part of a critical analysis of the episode. You might also consider merging any notable information onto the "List of episodes" or season pages. Otherwise, when these pages come up for review in fourteen days, they may be redirected, merged or deleted. If you want any help or further information, then come to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Episode coverage. Thanks. TTN 17:22, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Season 1
There are a few errors here. First there was no order for Dick to get married ("a genuine message came from the home planet allowing Dick to stay but ordering that he take a wife, as his romance with Dr. Albright was the apparent source of much of his emotional instability") and don't even think there was a message telling them he could stay, only a warning that the new commander was a Criminal. Secondly, Janet appears in the begging of the 3rd Season, not 1st. Check the episode guide you'll see the 2 episodes entited "Fun with Dick and Janet" in season 3. 195.210.236.10 16:34, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Improvement Drive
Come on folks, this article could be so much better. Let's move this from a start class to a B class article. There's a lot of work to do. Let's work on MOS, sources, characters, episode lists, etc. We can use Scrubs, Seinfeld, Friends, and MASH to research how to improve this article. There is no reason we can't achieve B, or GA on this. Let's get to work. --User: (talk) 15:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Removal of unsourced data/content
The show broke ground by introducing predominantly European humour in its writing to an American audience and was the first television show to create a 3D episode using advanced cinema techniques of the time. Therefore I am removing it and placing it here. If anyone has a source, please let me know, or put it back in. I'll continue moving content here that doesn't have sources to improve this article. --User: (talk)
 * I'm removing a bunch of data/content that is unsourced. Although it sounds good, I was unable to find any sources backing up the following info:

(the names of the male characters are obvious allusions to the proverbial average-joes "Tom, Dick, and Harry") As mentioned, I'll be moving more in here. --User: (talk) 13:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Moving another unsourced, and contrary to what it says, non obvious statement. If someone can find a source to support this statement, cite it and place it back in.

The names of the male Solomons are a play on the expression "every Tom, Dick and Harry". Officer Don realizes this, but is assured that this is a coincidence, and "not a calculated attempt to appear normal", as Tommy says. Sally's name is also implicitly chosen because of its commonplace nature as well, and was possibly chosen to match Harry's name in a reference to the film When Harry Met Sally. As for the name "Solomon", they say that they took it off a truck that was driving by. I'll continue to remove unsourced material. --User: (talk) 03:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Moving more unsourced original researched material. If someone can source it, then we can definitely put it back in.

Compliments
I don't know where else to put this, and someone can delete it if it's the wrong place, but I hope it hangs around long enough for the creator to see it, because whoever wrote this entry did a terrific job. The details, the research, the comprehensiveness, the wide-ranging references to theater and comedy - all brought back vividly one of the most enjoyable sitcoms I've ever seen, literally episode by episode. It's all very straightforward, factual, dispassionate, yet the enthusiasm for the topic shines through, as does the desire to write a very good piece. I kept laughing at the memories and getting up to tell my wife about them. Yeah, I know my reading pleasure is not the point here, but still...very, very well-done, and much appreciated. Mission accomplished.Wlegro 16:12, 18 September 2007 (UTC)